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DAY 71: EXAMINATION OF WITNESS D. CHATZISTAMATIS

71st Hearing, Court of Appeals, July 4th, 2016

1. Access to the Court

The courtroom remains open to the public upon presentation of a state ID card, which is retained by court authorities for the duration of the session. There was significant attendance by the public as well as members of the press.

2.  Presence and representation of the defendants
Present at the start of the hearing were 16 defendants, out of a total of 18 who have been ordered to personally appear in court. Twenty-six (26) defendants were recorded as absent, while the rest were represented by their counsels.

3. Continuation of witness testimony of Dimitris Chatzistamatis

Responding to questions by the presiding judge the witness testified that before the murder of Fyssas took place there was tension on the Golden Dawn side and that Golden Dawn’s activity is well-known. The witness specifically mentioned the Golden Dawn attack on the KKE poster team, and the hunt for immigrants, as well as various attacks in street markets. He has also heard about physical attacks against politicians involving Golden Dawn MPs, such as the ones against Pyrros Dimas and Liana Kanelli.

He stressed that no other incident has been reported in Keratsini and Amfiali before the Fyssas murder, and that he has never witnessed an incident before. Everything that he knows about Golden Dawn, apart from the facts surrounding the Fyssas case, he has heard it from the media.

Responding to a question by the presiding judge about whether he knows who was the chief at headquarters, he said that “I’ve never followed the matter”. He was also asked if he’s ever heard of the term cell commander, and the witness said that what he understands from what he’s read on the internet is a hierarchical organization.

The presiding judge’s next question was what else comes to mind, apart from Golden Dawn, when he hears the term assault squads. Chatzistamatis answered that nothing else comes to mind, only Golden Dawn, and that from what he understands the attacks will be violent. He also said that the assault squads are groups for the purpose of carrying out attacks, with uniform clothing and military structure.

On the night in question, right after the end of the match, outside Koralli, the witness tried to intercede between the groups, and as he said, he chose to speak with only one of the three men present. When asked by the presiding judge to identify the defendants he stated that he was under a lot of stress and pointed out Aggos and Kalaritis as the persons that he talked with on that night, without being able to recognize who it was of the two.

4. Examination by the civil action counsels

First to take the floor were the civil action counsels for the Fyssas family. Responding to questions by civil action counsel Ch. Papadopoulou, the witness said that Fyssas seemed like a calm and gentle person and that when he heard the Golden Dawners marching forth, he had already talked with the DIAS policemen that were present at the scene.

-Did you inform the DIAS policemen when they arrived at the scene?

-Yes. I told them that I was a police officer, too, and that two groups almost had a fight.

-How would you characterize the behavior of Fyssas, when you talked to him?

-He was very calm, with his girlfriend. When I spoke to them, they stayed in Kefallinias.

Responding to questions by civil action counsel Elefth. Tobatzoglou he stated that he has nothing to say concerning the arrest of Roupakias, since at that point he ran to Fyssas. He focused on P. Fyssas. When he went near to help the wounded Fyssas, his girlfriend was at his side, and then another girl came who told them she was a nurse. When asked if there were police officers on the scene he said that they were in the perimeter, as well as a uniformed officer that was shouting for someone to call an ambulance. The witness didn’t notice anything concerning Roupakias, except that the people around the scene of the murder were pointing at the silver-colored car.

Civil action counsel El. Christodoulou asked the witness to explain how he knew that the weaker persons were in the Fyssas group. The witness stated that the Fyssas group appeared weaker because they had a girl with them and because they were calm, contrary to the Golden Dawn group, whose behavior was aggressive. One of them was even shouting and screaming on the phone. The witness also testified that the stab wound was made by someone that had been trained.

Responding to questions by civil action counsel Viol. Kougiatsou, about the DIAS squad that arrived on the scene, the witness stated that there was a male and a female DIAS police officer, who were standing across the street from Koralli, and added that they didn’t ask him for identification.

The witness also said that the murderer twisted the knife, and that Fyssas’ cardiac wound was open like a rose.

He was asked to explain why he described Fyssas’ wound as a “rose”. Chatzistamatis said that he was amazed by the fact that it was a big and open wound, like a rose, and that there wasn’t much blood.

Responding to questions by civil action counsel And. Tzellis, about whether the person that shouted “There he is!” was the commander, the witness stated that only one person in the attacking Golden Dawn group had a commanding role on that night but when he was shown a photograph to identify him, the witness said that he couldn’t remember his face anymore. The civil action counsel told him that when he was shown the same photograph in the past he had implicated the man depicted as the commander of the attack. At this point defense counsel Velentza objected and motioned to strike out the civil action counsel’s questions. Despite the objection, the civil action counsel continued with his examination of the witness, who in a next photo identified the depicted man, who was boxing, as the man he saw in the police station (Giorgos Roupakias).

Chatzistamatatis denied that in his testimony he mentioned anarchists and Golden Dawners, since as he said when he talked with the DIAS police officers he still had no idea why the two groups were fighting, that he used the term “fucking hooligans” even though he could tell that the opposite group was composed of furious Golden Dawners whereas this group had no definite characteristics to set it apart.

Responding to questions by civil action counsel K. Papadakis (for the Egyptian fishermen) about whether this group could have resorted to violence, the witness responded affirmatively and added that the goal on that summer night was to instill terror, since the sound of marching can’t be done spontaneously, and with summer shoes at that, but needs heavy shoes and training. He also testified that the presence of the DIAS squad did nothing to deter the excited Golden Dawners. Finally, the witness testified that on the night of the murder he thought that the idea he had of Golden Dawn was finally being confirmed.

He said that back then whoever got on Golden Dawn’s wrong side was in danger, since whoever was opposed to Golden Dawn was automatically their enemy. Chatzistamatis stated that Golden Dawn was opposed to any and all immigrants, as well as against other social groups with differing views, irrespective of personal differences.

The floor was then given to T. Zotos who showed the witness a map of the area.

Chatzistamatis pointed out the spot where the three Golden Dawners had been standing along with the four of the Fyssas group, and which parts of the street were insufficiently lit, and proceeded to answer questions.

“At this point there were only three Golden Dawners before they were joined by another 15 that came marching from P. Mela St.” Nobody moved, and one person of the Fyssas group shouted “This is Keratsini, where fascism won’t stand”, it was then that the witness felt that he could get between the two groups and say “Enough is enough”.

When the civil action counsel insisted on questions about whether any of the three persons pointed at Fyssas and his friends, since they were the only ones that had laid eyes on them, the presiding judge rejected the questions as hypothetical. When shown photographs that depicted weapons training and military garb, the witness was asked whether there were any similarities between the photographs and the night in question. The defense counsels objected, while defense counsel Papadelis (for Il. Kasidiaris) said to the presiding judge “How can you stand for this? The witness only saw three people”. Civil action counsel T. Zotos asked the witness whether he felt fear on the night of the incident and Chatzistamatis responded affirmatively, and when asked whether he was afraid at that moment [:in the courtroom] he replied the same.

Civil action counsel Th. Kabagiannis asked of the witness to describe Fyssas and his group. Apart from Fyssas, who as he said was muscular, the rest were a girl a two guys, a short one and a chubby one, none of whom were holding weapons of any kind. The civil action counsel then reminded him that in his testimony before the Piraeus investigator, he had stated that he saw a group of 15-20 people that were holding wooden clubs and appeared to be furious. He had said the same to both investigators, and had included the claim in the report he had compiled for the police, and asked the witness whether he confirmed. Chatzistamatis confirmed that they were holding helmets and that at least one of them was holding a club. He was then asked whether Fyssas and his friends were holding anything that could be considered a weapon.

The witness added that the 15-20 Golden Dawners were shouting and joined with the 3 that were waiting outside Koralli. At that point Fyssas and his friends had already departed and had gone to Tsaldari St. without encountering problems. The witness then mentioned the “wall” that 2-3 of the assailants formed when they blocked Fyssas’ way.

Civil action counsel T. Sapountzakis (for the PAME members) commenced his examination with the question “How would you characterize the organization which includes in its hierarchy the murderer?”, the defense counsels erupted in protest and the audience started clapping and cheering. After a short recess, the civil action counsel continued by asking the witness whether in the various political parties or in the Greek Orthodox Church or in any other official organization is it required of someone to commit a murder in order to climb the ranks.

The witness stated that he hasn’t heard of anything like it, and the presiding judge observed that the civil action counsel used phrases that the witness hadn’t said. The witness stated that the Golden Dawners were the assailants and Fyssas and his friends were in defense.

Responding to a question by civil action counsel Agg. Vrettos, the witness stated that in his mind Golden Dawn is connected with the extreme right wing and neo-nazi sections of society, and that when he hears about Golden Dawn the faces that come to mind are Kasidiaris, Lagos, and the leader of the party, whom the witness named wrongly as “Michalopoulos” [:the correct name is Michaloliakos].

Responding to questions by civil action counsel Theodoropoulos, the witness explained that when Golden Dawners were shouting what they said was sometimes in the plural and sometimes in the singular, and gave an example: that he heard them shout “we’ll fuck them up” but also “we’ll fuck him up”. He also stated that during the training he received in Komotini by the Greek Police, that orientation without the use of a compass, camouflage, and crawling were not included, because those skills are part of military training.

5. Examination of witness D. Chatzistamatis by the defense counsels

The first to take the floor was the defense counsel for A. Anadiotis. The witness told defense counsel N. Kontovazenitis that he had a view of Koralli and that there were a few parked cars. The surrounding area was lit only by street lamps which were adequate in Tsaldari and limited in the surrounding streets.

Responding to questions by defense counsel Oplantzakis the witness stated that the “ironic” remark of “gentle” Fyssas to the witness was only to be expected at that particular moment, and also clarified that if he had to say which of the two groups was most afraid then he would say definitely Fyssas and his friends, and that they were surely the calmer ones. Responding to a question by the defense counsel he stated that it’s not out of the question that the whole thing was the result of a staring incident that escalated, and that based on his knowledge of vocabulary the “mob” that he mentioned is not different than “in ranks”. He admitted that he did not tell the Golden Dawn group that the cars of Fyssas and his friends were parked in P. Mela St., and that for the time the three Golden Dawners were there they didn’t try to trap the others [:the Fyssas group] at the place where their cars were parked. The defense counsel then unfolded a map of the area, the witness pointed the location of Koralli, and responding to questions pointed at the spot where he was standing, where the Fyssas group was standing, the Golden Dawners’ movements, and the spot where the murder was committed. Responding to another question by the defense counsel about how he could tell that the shout “There he is!” was referring to Fyssas, the witness said that his personal opinion was that they were going for the tall guy, and another personal estimate which he stated before the investigator was that Fyssas was physically stronger than Roupakias and that the support to Roupakias that he mentioned in his testimony was mostly of a psychological nature. He stated that just the fact of so many brawny people standing in ranks encouraged him.

The defense counsel then asked why would a trained killer need encouragement, and the witness said that it’s one of the ways a team operates. The witness then clarified that he has no forensic experience, and answered the following question: “You said that you saw that the victim had a rotation wound, and you thought that you shouldn’t move him because he would lose blood. Isn’t that what you told the investigator?”

The witness responded by saying: “As he was lying in his girlfriend’s arms, the way she was holding him, his head was lolling and he was doubled up. I just said to lift his torso up so that he wouldn’t be in pain”.

Responding to a question by V. Oplantzakis about whether he had seen them fight earlier in the evening, he answered negatively, and he added that the policemen went after them.

“I don’t know if they were in pursuit. The fact that the police was on their tails doesn’t mean that they were frightened”.

 

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